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| Author | Subject | irregular
Unregistered User
(9/7/00 12:13:58 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del All | What info. do you put on an online resume?
The persistent borker thread got me thinking. I've started a new job search by sending my resume to a few recruiters I've worked with in the past and a couple that were recommended to me. I list all the information in those resumes.
I'm thinking of starting to carpet bomb and posting the resume on Dice/Monster/etc... What info. do you place in online resumes. Is it just like a normal resume? Or do you leave things out like names of previous and current employers (clients)? What phone number do you use? I'm thinking of buy a pre-paid cell phone and maybe getting a onebox account.
Or am I going to extremes here? I can't list the phone number of work, since I don't want them finding out I'm searching for another job.
| IT Whore
Registered User
(9/7/00 12:22:24 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | just a regular resume
I leave my home number and E-mail. If you're a contractor, your work number is only valid while you are working.
| Dinosaur
Registered User
(9/7/00 1:45:04 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Re: What info. do you put on an online resume?
NEVER put any info about your current client - name, phone, email online. It could come back to haunt you, and it leaves you wide open to the kind of harassment Tandem Guy has been dealing with.
NEVER include names of individuals, whether clients, borques, or references.
Recommended: Leave out any information that “dates” you, especially if you’re over 40. Cut your job history off at 10 years ago. Leave out names of client companies, instead be general (“electric utility” for Con Ed). It’s OK to omit dates of gigs. Don’t give your home phone unless you want to skip dinner to field calls, and have your answering machine permanently overflowing. And, yes, some west coast clown will call you at 8pm PT, just as you and your SO are bedding down, at 11pm ET.
I don’t give any history at all in my online resume. I state the kind of work I’m looking for and back that up with “over 5 years experience”. I also include an alphabetical list of a few dozen buzzwords, which will maximize hits with automated searches.
For contact information, I give my US PO Box and my onebox.com email and voice mail.
Over what hill? I don't remember any hill!
| tracyb
Registered User
(9/7/00 6:22:09 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Re: What info. do you put on an online resume?
"NEVER put any info about your current client - name, phone, email online. It could come back to haunt you, and it leaves you wide open to the kind of harassment Tandem Guy has been dealing with."
I must have missed the thread about the kind of harassment Tandem Guy has been dealing with. Anyway, I never put client names on on-line resumes. Just makes it easier for borks to swarm in on a client lead without even giving you a call. Actually, I don't put client names on resumes that I send directly to borks either.
| Don Wallace
Moderator
(9/7/00 6:54:29 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Leave out phone numbers, use throwaway email addrs
I stupidly put my FAX number on just one online resume a couple of years ago, and I have been on a some scumbag !@^* FAX war dialer's phone list ("Exclusive Vacation Offer, Please Circulate") ever since.
Phone and especially FAX numbers on the internet get harvested by bots. Use throwaway numbers, Onebox.com numbers, etc. Likewise, leave off cell phone numbers because anyone can incur a charge to you.
I agree with what everyone else is saying about specific clients - LEAVE OUT THEIR SPECIFIC IDENTITY on online resumes. All you are doing is making it easy for recruiters to pollute our home waters by associating skill sets with companies that use those skills - I'll be blasted if I am going to help recruiters I don't even know with that kind of valuable info. I've done it in the past and I've heard about it afterward.
Advice in a similar vein: leave out specific company names if you ever submit your resume to a job fair for redistribution. I had some !@^%&* slick operator trying to call my past clients because he called me to ask me about one company whose name I transmuted with another in error.
The general rule here is: don't provide specifics (names, except your own, phone numbers) on material that is made publicly available.
| Dinosaur
Registered User
(9/8/00 6:53:41 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | tracyb, here's Tandem Guy's harassment thread
pub2.ezboard.com/fcompute...1361.topic
Over what hill? I don't remember any hill!
| Colonel DRB
Registered User
(9/8/00 8:59:13 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Re: What info. do you put on an online resume?
Dinosaur - I agree completely with what you said and will go a step further: anyone that has been writing/sending resumes for many years (i.e. 15+) knows that you ABSOLUTELY MUST REFRAIN FROM USING ANYTHING ON YOUR RESUME THAT WILL WORK AGAINST YOU. This includes specific or even general reference to age (age discrimination is more prevalent then you may want to know), personal info, photos, or anything that could violate the confidentiality section of a previous contract (i.e. past/current client names).
I agree with you to use the standard practice of limiting your resume to the last 10 years and if over 40 NEVER LET THEM FIGURE OUT YOUR AGE, don't show the year of your degree, NEVER LIST ANYTHING GOING BACK TO THE 1970s. I especially agree with use of a voice mail (such as 'zdnetonebox') to receive messages. Don't let the resume prospecting borkettes have your home number or you will get into their computer and you'll get calls (voice spam) for years. Give them your home phone AFTER you know that the job is genuine (not a resume trap) and that they are serious about you. They leave a message, you call them, you find out they are legit, then they get your home phone. NEVER GIVE A CLIENT'S NUMBER - they aren't paying you to discuss non-company business on their time. That's unethical.
I've seen on-line resumes that show one's age, personal information, home telephone numbers, etc. I even saw one that had the guy's home address and a picture of his daughter. I'm sure the pedophiles in America appreciate that! You just have to use experience & common sense. Keep in mind what John Erlichtman said: "It's pretty hard to get the toothpaste back into the tube". Once you put out certain info on your resume (especially on-line) you can't recall it just because you no longer want it out there.
Colonel DRB (Debunk Recruiter Bullsh*t)
| mary4321
Unregistered User
(10/6/00 10:20:49 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Age discrimination
I have a background in graphic design and a keen interest in web design...I'm 50 years old...most people in web design are much younger .... I'm wondering if the field is so competive that it may not be a good field for an older person to seriously consider...anyone have any feelings for this? currently I am a freelance graphics person & illustrator.
| WindmillF8
Registered User
(10/6/00 10:52:33 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Learn HTML and don't tell 'em your age
Get up to speed on HTML, maybe even set up your own web page. Your graphics experience will help you put up a dandy web page which will speak well of your abilities.
But the calendar is big too. So: don't put any graduation dates, don't show experience more than 10 years old. Stick to this even when borques whine and complain that they can't go further without full details. Keep a full resumé for actual interviews.
Age discrimination is alive and well. But graphics/web may have more tolerance for age since much of a web page is its visuals, and your experience will help you stand out from newbies.
Be sure to carpet-bomb your congressdroids about H-1Bs!
| turbo
Registered User
(10/6/00 10:54:56 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | old folx == expensive folx
companies want fresh young faces. not because the pups learn faster, or you can't train and old hound, but because the pups right out of college (or in some cases, high school) don't have wives and kids, will work 80 hours a week for peanuts because they think they're "paying their dues," and are easily roped into the "competitive" overwork culture. Let them take their dog to work, and they think it's Nirvana (or perl jam, or whatever)
Old folx won't go for that, they have stuff to do besides work. They know what market rates are, and demand them. They're also a potential insurance burden, although, so is Cindy Coder who gets knocked up by one of the Nerds...
| Janet Ruhl 
ezOP
(10/7/00 8:29:38 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Go For It!
Mary,
There's so much demand for web design help right now that no one cares how old you are if you can do the work.
I know several 40- and 50-ish women who have built up very successful web design companies that are big enough to have their own employees--one without any previous training or formal education.
You might not get hired by large would-be trendy companies, but there are plenty of midsized if unglamorous businesses in every sizeable community that need help either creating or improving their websites.
Learn the technical stuff you need to know to make it happen, do some freebies for deserving charities, schools, friends' businesses etc so you have something to show, and then get out there and market!
Good luck!
| Tandem Guy
Registered User
(10/7/00 10:17:36 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Just very basic info
No names or phone numbers. See: home.earthlink.net/~jvols...ultant.htm
| Dinosaur
Registered User
(10/7/00 2:47:40 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Re: Just very basic info
Suggestions and comments:
- You "date" yourself by giving the dates of education.
- I think the Army spells "useless" as "Eustis"
Over what hill? I don't remember any hill!
| Erik Haselhofer
Registered User
(10/7/00 2:52:22 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | For Chris sakes...
Who gives a f... what some corporate drone wants. Age discrimination is much less an issue for outside vendors. It's much more of an employee issue. Also, there are whole industries who are even now barely catching on to this web thing and who are thrilled when a web designer knocks on their door because they have no idea where to begin or what to do. I just went to a trade show and at 35 was one of the younger people there amidst companies much older than I. These businesses do not want a 24 year old doing their site. Use age discrimination to your advantage. There is a wealth of work in the non-glamour businesses and the neat thing about them, is that many of them actually have cash flow and viable businesses.
If you have graphic skills, can build a web site, then hang up a shingle and go to it. There are tons of small to mid-sized companies in non-high tech industries crying for web sites. I'm a one-man shop whose graphic skills suck (ok, they don't suck, my work is clean, I just lack strong graphic skills so I compensate with leanness) and I'm finding work.
You don't need a resume to do this (Gaaaghh but the resume comments irritated me). What you need is a portfolio of sites you've built. I did this by building free sites for small businesspeople who had a business I respected and I knew could use a site. I got a reference they got a site. Don't take more than a week with each one and you don't need more than a couple because your own site will also be a reference piece.
One last comment, remove the words, hired, employee, resume and the like from your vocabulary. You don't need them in this world. I've actually taken my resume off my site and no longer have a current resume. I think of myself as a business and what I can offer as a business.
Good luck, and absolutely, you can do this.
| Chris
Unregistered User
(10/7/00 3:29:01 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Not for MY sake, Eric...
...but I always seem to be mistaken for someone else.
| Erik Haselhofer
Registered User
(10/7/00 6:11:41 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | What was that guy thinking....
| whinedesk
Registered User
(10/10/00 12:03:58 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | standalone Web design work -- is there any?
<< There's so much demand for web design help right now that no one cares how old you are if you can do the work. >>
Is there? If there is, I'd sure like to know how to find it. Unless you know Java, VB, Perl, or other back-end programming stuff, I don't see much of a market. I've offered to create Web sites for FREE for several small businesses -- and in each case, they've told me, "Sorry, but so-and-so has already offered to do it for free." If you're just talking straight HTML design/content, there are so many people who want to do it that there's no way to make money at it. Or am I TOTALLY missing the boat by a mile here?
Urbie
| Janet Ruhl
ezOP
(10/10/00 6:25:06 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | There is here
Maybe it's a matter of where you live. In the small town environment I live it, it seems like I can't go out in public without running into someone who desperately needs a web site. (I don't do web sites for other people, but since I have my own that attracts people.)
This may not be true in larger metropolitan areas. . . what's the experience of others here?
| whinedesk
Registered User
(10/10/00 10:57:42 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | not in *this* small town, there ain't!
<< Maybe it's a matter of where you live. In the small town environment I live it, it seems like I can't go out in public without running into someone who desperately needs a web site. (I don't do web sites for other people, but since I have my own that attracts people.) This may not be true in larger metropolitan areas. . . what's the experience of others here? >>
That's funny -- I'm in Flagstaff, AZ, a town of about 60,000, but at least half of those are college students and second-homers (mostly from Phoenix -- they need a place to go to get away from the heat in summer), so the year-round population of people who actually live here isn't much more than half that. Just from surfing around, I've found several small firms that claim to do Web design -- but none of them is looking for help. My guess is that they don't really get much work.
Are you saying that there's actually a demand for just straight Web-page/site creation, with no programming behind it? If so, send 'em my way! 
Urbie
| Wanna Know
Unregistered User
(12/16/00 2:24:49 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | hiding age
What about your degrees? Do you say you have B.S. and M.S. but leave the date off?
| Dinosaur
Registered User
(12/16/00 6:49:01 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Re: hiding age
Exactly. "Degrees: BSME, MBA..." Include your major if relevant. "BA, Math" but not English for a techie gig. I wouldn't even include the school. When you get in front of the prospect, you can judge whether they will be impressed by your big-name school. Likely, and especially if you steer the conversation toward the content of their requirements, it will never come up. Efties, this should work for you, too, at least for inital interviews, and hopefully right up to the time you get the offer.
Over what hill? I don't remember any hill!
| David Cressey 
Registered User
(12/16/00 8:18:55 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Build on your strengths
You say you have a background in graphic design. If your background is a GOOD one, you have an enormous advantage over someone like me.
I've been doing the technology for decades, and the technology behind web page design is pretty light stuff, when you compare it to the design of larger systems that are harder to "see". So I can teach myself, in short order, how to generate the commands that will produce colors, layouts, special effects, images, and links to other pages. You might take a little longer to learn that technology than I did, because my background helps me learn that stuff.
So what's your enormous advantage over me (and also over most of the 20 somethings)? Well, from your background in graphics design I suspect you know what looks good!
I don't. I don't know which colors put people in a buying mood, and which encourage them to move on. I don't know how to balance color on a page. I don't know how much detail you can put on a page before the target reader starts to lose focus.
If you and I were competing on web sites, I would probably get some pages up before you did. They would be mediocre, but maybe passable, like the clothing I tend to pick for myself. Your pages, within six weeks of starting, can be as good as some of the best graphic design work you've done in the past. With any skill at all, those pages should be much better than mine.
Now start looking at some web pages out there. Analyze them critically, from the design skills you know you have. Are they really as good as they could be? Divide pages you browse into two categories (or a spectrum between the two extremes): ones that use the technology to enhance the graphic presentation, and ones that throw technical tricks at the reader, but are graphically ineffective. Trust your accumulated wisdom on this, being prepared to change your mind if you get feedback that says that some of your tried and true assumptions are no longer valid.
But hang on to what you've learned until you find out that it's really no longer true. The technology has changed, but the way visual images affect the human eye hasn't changed.
I think you'll find that graphic design for the web has a lot of commonality with graphic design for the printed page.
Now comes the hard part. How to market yourself? Pay close attention to Janet's comments on this matter. It's crucial. And especially with regard to web page design and age discrimination. The mature web designers who manage to get around age discrimination are the ones who manage to put their designs in front of people with actual problems that can be addressed by good design.
The ones who get clobbered by age discrimination are the ones whose fate is in the hands of a youthful hiring manager who wouldn't know a good design if it hit him in the face, and so judges based on stereotypes instead of real worth. Some of them tend to think that the younger you are, the "kewler" you must be. don't go through those people, go around them.
The market is waiting for you, but it doesn't wait long.
Regards,
David Cressey
Not all those who wander are lost.
| Tom Welch
Unregistered User
(12/16/00 12:43:42 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Post a Profile. Not a Resume Online
My $0.02:
All the replies to this topic have been "right on".
I would add the name of the game is posting a
mere profile describing your expertise by using
lots of NOUNS (as opposed to verbs) so that the
search engine [recruiters] can find you.
Tom Welch
www.moneywords.com
| somedumbbum
Registered User
(12/16/00 4:35:12 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Oh, there's plenty of demand
for static, HTML-only stuff.
Problem is, the client can pay you $8/hr to lay out static web pages, or the client can buy FrontPage and do it himself.
Even at only $8/hr, FrontPage is cheaper in the not-so-long run.
If you can't/don't do programming behind the pages, what can/do you offer that FrontPage (or any cheap web page design tool) doesn't?
|
| Author | Subject | irregular
Unregistered User
(9/7/00 12:13:58 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del All | What info. do you put on an online resume?
The persistent borker thread got me thinking. I've started a new job search by sending my resume to a few recruiters I've worked with in the past and a couple that were recommended to me. I list all the information in those resumes.
I'm thinking of starting to carpet bomb and posting the resume on Dice/Monster/etc... What info. do you place in online resumes. Is it just like a normal resume? Or do you leave things out like names of previous and current employers (clients)? What phone number do you use? I'm thinking of buy a pre-paid cell phone and maybe getting a onebox account.
Or am I going to extremes here? I can't list the phone number of work, since I don't want them finding out I'm searching for another job.
| IT Whore
Registered User
(9/7/00 12:22:24 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | just a regular resume
I leave my home number and E-mail. If you're a contractor, your work number is only valid while you are working.
| Dinosaur
Registered User
(9/7/00 1:45:04 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Re: What info. do you put on an online resume?
NEVER put any info about your current client - name, phone, email online. It could come back to haunt you, and it leaves you wide open to the kind of harassment Tandem Guy has been dealing with.
NEVER include names of individuals, whether clients, borques, or references.
Recommended: Leave out any information that “dates” you, especially if you’re over 40. Cut your job history off at 10 years ago. Leave out names of client companies, instead be general (“electric utility” for Con Ed). It’s OK to omit dates of gigs. Don’t give your home phone unless you want to skip dinner to field calls, and have your answering machine permanently overflowing. And, yes, some west coast clown will call you at 8pm PT, just as you and your SO are bedding down, at 11pm ET.
I don’t give any history at all in my online resume. I state the kind of work I’m looking for and back that up with “over 5 years experience”. I also include an alphabetical list of a few dozen buzzwords, which will maximize hits with automated searches.
For contact information, I give my US PO Box and my onebox.com email and voice mail.
Over what hill? I don't remember any hill!
| tracyb
Registered User
(9/7/00 6:22:09 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Re: What info. do you put on an online resume?
"NEVER put any info about your current client - name, phone, email online. It could come back to haunt you, and it leaves you wide open to the kind of harassment Tandem Guy has been dealing with."
I must have missed the thread about the kind of harassment Tandem Guy has been dealing with. Anyway, I never put client names on on-line resumes. Just makes it easier for borks to swarm in on a client lead without even giving you a call. Actually, I don't put client names on resumes that I send directly to borks either.
| Don Wallace
Moderator
(9/7/00 6:54:29 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Leave out phone numbers, use throwaway email addrs
I stupidly put my FAX number on just one online resume a couple of years ago, and I have been on a some scumbag !@^* FAX war dialer's phone list ("Exclusive Vacation Offer, Please Circulate") ever since.
Phone and especially FAX numbers on the internet get harvested by bots. Use throwaway numbers, Onebox.com numbers, etc. Likewise, leave off cell phone numbers because anyone can incur a charge to you.
I agree with what everyone else is saying about specific clients - LEAVE OUT THEIR SPECIFIC IDENTITY on online resumes. All you are doing is making it easy for recruiters to pollute our home waters by associating skill sets with companies that use those skills - I'll be blasted if I am going to help recruiters I don't even know with that kind of valuable info. I've done it in the past and I've heard about it afterward.
Advice in a similar vein: leave out specific company names if you ever submit your resume to a job fair for redistribution. I had some !@^%&* slick operator trying to call my past clients because he called me to ask me about one company whose name I transmuted with another in error.
The general rule here is: don't provide specifics (names, except your own, phone numbers) on material that is made publicly available.
| Dinosaur
Registered User
(9/8/00 6:53:41 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | tracyb, here's Tandem Guy's harassment thread
pub2.ezboard.com/fcompute...1361.topic
Over what hill? I don't remember any hill!
| Colonel DRB
Registered User
(9/8/00 8:59:13 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Re: What info. do you put on an online resume?
Dinosaur - I agree completely with what you said and will go a step further: anyone that has been writing/sending resumes for many years (i.e. 15+) knows that you ABSOLUTELY MUST REFRAIN FROM USING ANYTHING ON YOUR RESUME THAT WILL WORK AGAINST YOU. This includes specific or even general reference to age (age discrimination is more prevalent then you may want to know), personal info, photos, or anything that could violate the confidentiality section of a previous contract (i.e. past/current client names).
I agree with you to use the standard practice of limiting your resume to the last 10 years and if over 40 NEVER LET THEM FIGURE OUT YOUR AGE, don't show the year of your degree, NEVER LIST ANYTHING GOING BACK TO THE 1970s. I especially agree with use of a voice mail (such as 'zdnetonebox') to receive messages. Don't let the resume prospecting borkettes have your home number or you will get into their computer and you'll get calls (voice spam) for years. Give them your home phone AFTER you know that the job is genuine (not a resume trap) and that they are serious about you. They leave a message, you call them, you find out they are legit, then they get your home phone. NEVER GIVE A CLIENT'S NUMBER - they aren't paying you to discuss non-company business on their time. That's unethical.
I've seen on-line resumes that show one's age, personal information, home telephone numbers, etc. I even saw one that had the guy's home address and a picture of his daughter. I'm sure the pedophiles in America appreciate that! You just have to use experience & common sense. Keep in mind what John Erlichtman said: "It's pretty hard to get the toothpaste back into the tube". Once you put out certain info on your resume (especially on-line) you can't recall it just because you no longer want it out there.
Colonel DRB (Debunk Recruiter Bullsh*t)
| mary4321
Unregistered User
(10/6/00 10:20:49 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Age discrimination
I have a background in graphic design and a keen interest in web design...I'm 50 years old...most people in web design are much younger .... I'm wondering if the field is so competive that it may not be a good field for an older person to seriously consider...anyone have any feelings for this? currently I am a freelance graphics person & illustrator.
| WindmillF8
Registered User
(10/6/00 10:52:33 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Learn HTML and don't tell 'em your age
Get up to speed on HTML, maybe even set up your own web page. Your graphics experience will help you put up a dandy web page which will speak well of your abilities.
But the calendar is big too. So: don't put any graduation dates, don't show experience more than 10 years old. Stick to this even when borques whine and complain that they can't go further without full details. Keep a full resumé for actual interviews.
Age discrimination is alive and well. But graphics/web may have more tolerance for age since much of a web page is its visuals, and your experience will help you stand out from newbies.
Be sure to carpet-bomb your congressdroids about H-1Bs!
| turbo
Registered User
(10/6/00 10:54:56 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | old folx == expensive folx
companies want fresh young faces. not because the pups learn faster, or you can't train and old hound, but because the pups right out of college (or in some cases, high school) don't have wives and kids, will work 80 hours a week for peanuts because they think they're "paying their dues," and are easily roped into the "competitive" overwork culture. Let them take their dog to work, and they think it's Nirvana (or perl jam, or whatever)
Old folx won't go for that, they have stuff to do besides work. They know what market rates are, and demand them. They're also a potential insurance burden, although, so is Cindy Coder who gets knocked up by one of the Nerds...
| Janet Ruhl
ezOP
(10/7/00 8:29:38 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Go For It!
Mary,
There's so much demand for web design help right now that no one cares how old you are if you can do the work.
I know several 40- and 50-ish women who have built up very successful web design companies that are big enough to have their own employees--one without any previous training or formal education.
You might not get hired by large would-be trendy companies, but there are plenty of midsized if unglamorous businesses in every sizeable community that need help either creating or improving their websites.
Learn the technical stuff you need to know to make it happen, do some freebies for deserving charities, schools, friends' businesses etc so you have something to show, and then get out there and market!
Good luck!
| Tandem Guy
Registered User
(10/7/00 10:17:36 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Just very basic info
No names or phone numbers. See: home.earthlink.net/~jvols...ultant.htm
| Dinosaur
Registered User
(10/7/00 2:47:40 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Re: Just very basic info
Suggestions and comments:
- You "date" yourself by giving the dates of education.
- I think the Army spells "useless" as "Eustis"
Over what hill? I don't remember any hill!
| Erik Haselhofer
Registered User
(10/7/00 2:52:22 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | For Chris sakes...
Who gives a f... what some corporate drone wants. Age discrimination is much less an issue for outside vendors. It's much more of an employee issue. Also, there are whole industries who are even now barely catching on to this web thing and who are thrilled when a web designer knocks on their door because they have no idea where to begin or what to do. I just went to a trade show and at 35 was one of the younger people there amidst companies much older than I. These businesses do not want a 24 year old doing their site. Use age discrimination to your advantage. There is a wealth of work in the non-glamour businesses and the neat thing about them, is that many of them actually have cash flow and viable businesses.
If you have graphic skills, can build a web site, then hang up a shingle and go to it. There are tons of small to mid-sized companies in non-high tech industries crying for web sites. I'm a one-man shop whose graphic skills suck (ok, they don't suck, my work is clean, I just lack strong graphic skills so I compensate with leanness) and I'm finding work.
You don't need a resume to do this (Gaaaghh but the resume comments irritated me). What you need is a portfolio of sites you've built. I did this by building free sites for small businesspeople who had a business I respected and I knew could use a site. I got a reference they got a site. Don't take more than a week with each one and you don't need more than a couple because your own site will also be a reference piece.
One last comment, remove the words, hired, employee, resume and the like from your vocabulary. You don't need them in this world. I've actually taken my resume off my site and no longer have a current resume. I think of myself as a business and what I can offer as a business.
Good luck, and absolutely, you can do this.
| Chris
Unregistered User
(10/7/00 3:29:01 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Not for MY sake, Eric...
...but I always seem to be mistaken for someone else.
| Erik Haselhofer
Registered User
(10/7/00 6:11:41 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | What was that guy thinking....
| whinedesk
Registered User
(10/10/00 12:03:58 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | standalone Web design work -- is there any?
<< There's so much demand for web design help right now that no one cares how old you are if you can do the work. >>
Is there? If there is, I'd sure like to know how to find it. Unless you know Java, VB, Perl, or other back-end programming stuff, I don't see much of a market. I've offered to create Web sites for FREE for several small businesses -- and in each case, they've told me, "Sorry, but so-and-so has already offered to do it for free." If you're just talking straight HTML design/content, there are so many people who want to do it that there's no way to make money at it. Or am I TOTALLY missing the boat by a mile here?
Urbie
| Janet Ruhl
ezOP
(10/10/00 6:25:06 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | There is here
Maybe it's a matter of where you live. In the small town environment I live it, it seems like I can't go out in public without running into someone who desperately needs a web site. (I don't do web sites for other people, but since I have my own that attracts people.)
This may not be true in larger metropolitan areas. . . what's the experience of others here?
| whinedesk
Registered User
(10/10/00 10:57:42 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | not in *this* small town, there ain't!
<< Maybe it's a matter of where you live. In the small town environment I live it, it seems like I can't go out in public without running into someone who desperately needs a web site. (I don't do web sites for other people, but since I have my own that attracts people.) This may not be true in larger metropolitan areas. . . what's the experience of others here? >>
That's funny -- I'm in Flagstaff, AZ, a town of about 60,000, but at least half of those are college students and second-homers (mostly from Phoenix -- they need a place to go to get away from the heat in summer), so the year-round population of people who actually live here isn't much more than half that. Just from surfing around, I've found several small firms that claim to do Web design -- but none of them is looking for help. My guess is that they don't really get much work.
Are you saying that there's actually a demand for just straight Web-page/site creation, with no programming behind it? If so, send 'em my way!
Urbie
| Wanna Know
Unregistered User
(12/16/00 2:24:49 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | hiding age
What about your degrees? Do you say you have B.S. and M.S. but leave the date off?
| Dinosaur
Registered User
(12/16/00 6:49:01 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Re: hiding age
Exactly. "Degrees: BSME, MBA..." Include your major if relevant. "BA, Math" but not English for a techie gig. I wouldn't even include the school. When you get in front of the prospect, you can judge whether they will be impressed by your big-name school. Likely, and especially if you steer the conversation toward the content of their requirements, it will never come up. Efties, this should work for you, too, at least for inital interviews, and hopefully right up to the time you get the offer.
Over what hill? I don't remember any hill!
| David Cressey
Registered User
(12/16/00 8:18:55 am)
Reply | Edit | Del | Build on your strengths
You say you have a background in graphic design. If your background is a GOOD one, you have an enormous advantage over someone like me.
I've been doing the technology for decades, and the technology behind web page design is pretty light stuff, when you compare it to the design of larger systems that are harder to "see". So I can teach myself, in short order, how to generate the commands that will produce colors, layouts, special effects, images, and links to other pages. You might take a little longer to learn that technology than I did, because my background helps me learn that stuff.
So what's your enormous advantage over me (and also over most of the 20 somethings)? Well, from your background in graphics design I suspect you know what looks good!
I don't. I don't know which colors put people in a buying mood, and which encourage them to move on. I don't know how to balance color on a page. I don't know how much detail you can put on a page before the target reader starts to lose focus.
If you and I were competing on web sites, I would probably get some pages up before you did. They would be mediocre, but maybe passable, like the clothing I tend to pick for myself. Your pages, within six weeks of starting, can be as good as some of the best graphic design work you've done in the past. With any skill at all, those pages should be much better than mine.
Now start looking at some web pages out there. Analyze them critically, from the design skills you know you have. Are they really as good as they could be? Divide pages you browse into two categories (or a spectrum between the two extremes): ones that use the technology to enhance the graphic presentation, and ones that throw technical tricks at the reader, but are graphically ineffective. Trust your accumulated wisdom on this, being prepared to change your mind if you get feedback that says that some of your tried and true assumptions are no longer valid.
But hang on to what you've learned until you find out that it's really no longer true. The technology has changed, but the way visual images affect the human eye hasn't changed.
I think you'll find that graphic design for the web has a lot of commonality with graphic design for the printed page.
Now comes the hard part. How to market yourself? Pay close attention to Janet's comments on this matter. It's crucial. And especially with regard to web page design and age discrimination. The mature web designers who manage to get around age discrimination are the ones who manage to put their designs in front of people with actual problems that can be addressed by good design.
The ones who get clobbered by age discrimination are the ones whose fate is in the hands of a youthful hiring manager who wouldn't know a good design if it hit him in the face, and so judges based on stereotypes instead of real worth. Some of them tend to think that the younger you are, the "kewler" you must be. don't go through those people, go around them.
The market is waiting for you, but it doesn't wait long.
Regards,
David Cressey
Not all those who wander are lost.
| Tom Welch
Unregistered User
(12/16/00 12:43:42 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Post a Profile. Not a Resume Online
My $0.02:
All the replies to this topic have been "right on".
I would add the name of the game is posting a
mere profile describing your expertise by using
lots of NOUNS (as opposed to verbs) so that the
search engine [recruiters] can find you.
Tom Welch
www.moneywords.com
| somedumbbum
Registered User
(12/16/00 4:35:12 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Oh, there's plenty of demand
for static, HTML-only stuff.
Problem is, the client can pay you $8/hr to lay out static web pages, or the client can buy FrontPage and do it himself.
Even at only $8/hr, FrontPage is cheaper in the not-so-long run.
If you can't/don't do programming behind the pages, what can/do you offer that FrontPage (or any cheap web page design tool) doesn't?
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